RL> At any rate, the thread you spawned about sexism has resulted in sometimes
RL> thoughtful and sometimes down-right angry responses. I just thought I'd
RL> take
RL> you at your word and offer some observations. Hatred betwen men and women
RL> is
RL> not the way to go and women being in roles of leadership, like the Janeway
RL> character in "Voyager" ned not turn men into quivering globs of
RL> uncoordinated
RL> protoplasm.
RL> Mind you, not everthing in the feminist movement is healthy and I think
RL> that
RL> Camille Paglia brings some balance and common sense to the debate. I
RL> recommend
RL> her collection of shorter writings in "Vamps and Tramps." It made me see
RL> these
RL> issues with new insights not often found in some of the mainstream
RL> feminist
RL> thinkers. In fact many of them detest Paglia and think of her as an
RL> enemy.
RL> Oh well, it is true there are more STRONG women characters in science
RL> fiction
RL> now and, you know what, there have been strong women all through history -
This is ridiculous... the entire point is that there have been FAR more male
hunters, FAR more male presidents, FAR more male captains, FAR more male
providers, and that by physically examining women it is OBVIOUS that they have
evolved in the fashion they have due to FAR less workload than men.. thats it.
i dont care what else anyone has to say, if you want to argue with what i just
said, i'm not even going to bother to reply, because i know that it is factual.
xxx
..c.raven..
--- CNet/3
* Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8 (1:393/7)
Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
Msg : 30 of 106
From : Jon Roth 1:143/254 .pä 07 .åâ 96 19:30
To : Chris Myers
Subj : Re: Nowhere Man
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Ill agree with ya that sitcoms dominate too much of the airwaves, and w
sci-fi fans should stick together and such, but that episode of Nowhere man and
V5 in general disgusted me (though i usually like what I see in nowhere man) I
sure that vr5 was probably not given a chance (youll notice that NOTHING has
managed to survive in the before X-files timeslot) The show annoyed me because
there is only so much suspension of disbelief that a person can come up with.
Anyone with even a smatering of computer/modem knowledge (e.g. anyone
reading thiscould have done a better job portraying the internet.
--- CNet/3
* Origin: Gnome's Guest Room BBS - (408)554-6689 (1:143/254)
Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
Msg : 31 of 106
From : Christian Raven 1:393/7 .pä 07 .åâ 96 18:36
To : Barton Paul Levenson
Subj : Re: Star Trek Sexism
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Tue 30-Jan-1996 7:18a, Barton Paul Levenson wrote:
BL> Whether or not there are intrinsic differences of behavior in any given
BL> group is irrelevant. It doesn't free you from the moral necessity of
BL> treating people as individuals.
i fail to see what treating people as individuals has to do with anything i
was talking about.. and you say that the differences in people are irrelevant?
i'm afraid you're terribly mistaken there... would you put a mentally retarted
person in command of a starship? if you treat everyone the same, you're going
to end up in a sadly lacking society, where everyone is operating by the
standards of the lowest common denominator.
..c.raven..
--- CNet/3
* Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8 (1:393/7)
Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
Msg : 32 of 106
From : Christian Raven 1:393/7 .pä 07 .åâ 96 18:48
To : Ecarey
Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Thu 1-Feb-1996 3:54a, Ecarey wrote:
E> CR>KS> So maybe they've stopped using the silly definitions to define real
E> liv
E> CR>KS> people, as opposed to theoreticaly abstracts? Heck, I can give
E> orders
E> CR>KS> and I'm female (!) and heterosexual (!!) and not even trying to be
E> a ma
E> CR>KS> (!!!). Wouldn't want to, really - not that men are bad necessarily
E> (I'
E> CR>KS> married to one), but I'm perfectly happy with the sex I've got.
E> CR> perhaps they have... and perhaps woman as a general species are
E> becoming m
E> CR>and more independant and assertive as they evolve.
E> Women aren't a species. They are the females of the same species men are
E> the males of.
perhaps you are right there... women are not, scientifically speaking, a
different species than man. however, they ARE intrinsically and generally
different in many, many ways, both psychologically and physically. this is
quite obvious, as (a) there has never been a female president in the leading
country of the world, and (b) there has NEVER been a female weight-lifter even
NEARLY as strong as a male. women are physically weaker, and mentally less
rational, the latter which could be obviously argued to a standstill... although
there are many signs of this.
E> CR>my entire argument is based
E> CR>on the fact that throughout history, probably almost to the beginning
E> of man
E> CR>(no matter what your religion), woman have been child-bearers. now,
E> i'm not
E> CR>trying to be sexist (although reading my last message i can understand
E> how y
E> CR>might feel that way), but that's the way it was. in fact, it wasn't
E> until
E> CR>quite recently that women began to take on some of the roles of their
E> male
E> CR>counterparts. so the way i see it, you can't destroy that much evolved
E> CR>instinct in just a few decades... most likely, it will take quite a
E> long tim
E> Your knowledge of history is limited and inaccurate. Women bear the
E> children, but in most cultures, women have had to be able to exercise
E> power and authority. Most "primitive" cultures have elders of both sexes
no, my knowledge of history is not limited, i merely underestimated your own.
but you are not entirely correct. yes, *some* women in *some* societies have
been burdened with *some* of the male's responsibilities, but not many... for
instance, women, whether african, or indian, or many other cultures, were never
taught to hunt. some cultures even PROHIBITED women from hunting, for fear that
their fragility might be threatened.
E> who are important in making decisions for the group as a whole. In more
E> technologically advanced cultures, women have often _in practice_ run
E> the households theoretically ruled by their husbands, while their
E> husbands were away doing other things - such as fighting the wars, or
E> dancing attendance on appropriate monarchs. This meant running the
E> _entire_ household, the male servants and tenant farmers as well as the
E> females.
you are correct, but again, not completely.. yes *some* women have taken male
roles, but their numbers are few, and the reasons for this go back to my
original response.
..c.raven..
--- CNet/3
* Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8 (1:393/7)
Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
Msg : 33 of 106
From : Christian Raven 1:393/7 .pä 07 .åâ 96 18:53
To : The Raven
Subj : Re: Aggression
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Thu 1-Feb-1996 8:46p, The Raven wrote:
TR>
TR> CR> i agree, assertiveness is far superior to raw agression in the
TR> CR>long term. however, in order to gain the respect of your crew so
TR> CR>that they will trust your assertations, you must show some degree
TR> CR>of fearlessness, true compassion, and strong will.
TR> And none of these traits requires agression to be combined in an
TR> effective leader, or have you forgotten Mohandas K. Ghandi?
huh? what did that have to do with what i just said? in fact, how was what
you just said any different from what i said?
..c.raven..
--- CNet/3
* Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8 (1:393/7)
Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
Msg : 34 of 106
From : ROBERT LIDGREN 1:134/10 .ōp 06 .åâ 96 22:01
To : FRANK GLOVER
Subj : X-FILES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> I'm inclined to agree with this. I just (and I mean minutes ago)
-> watched the next episode involving the gargoyles, and I get the hint of at
-> least Scully's concern for Mulder going somewhere beyond the professional.
-> (Not toward the `L' word now mind you, but somewhere beyond.) The nature of
-> the plot made it impossible to tell if his feelings are growing in any way,
-> though.
Hi Frank!
Yes, somethings up but the Gargoyles episode doesn't define it. The sense is
there that we DO INDEED have the makings of further explorations between Scully
and Mulder re: their reltionship. However, Mulder spent so much time pouring
over gargoyle drawings, sculptures and historical sources in the LIBRARY that
we didn't get more.
BTW, I have heard from some people that they hate it when we get a Mulder
"voice-over." What do you think? I kind of like it because voice-overs are
the only way to get DIRECTLY inside a character's thinking/feeling processes.
I don't know, I kind of enjoy these diversions and always having to deduce
what's going on "beneath the mask."
--- PCBoard 15.2
* Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)
Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
Msg : 35 of 106
From : Frank Swarbrick 1:104/825 .ōp 06 .åâ 96 20:00
To : Chris Myers
Subj : NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 92-0022
On 02-04-96 09:23 my Very Good Friend Chris Myers said:
CM> I was finally able to view an episode of Nowhere Man -- it was a
CM> rerun this week according to the TV listing but for me it was new. It
CM> was the episode about the computer genius (shades of VR5). I must say
CM> I was impressed and am sorry to have been missing it all this time. Is
CM> it really cancelled?
I haven't heard about it being cancelled. It was still on as of Feb
5, and they showed scenes for next week.
Now as for Deadly Games, that seems to have been cancelled. Does
anyone know for sure? It hasn't been on in about a month.
CM> I also wanted to say regarding VR5, I was sorely disappointed that
CM> they cancelled that show before it really got off the ground. I found
CM> it fascinating and I wish they would either make some follow-up movies
CM> or revive it on one of the other networks.
I'm with you. The first four episodes were not that good, but it just
got better and better after that. I was very disappointed that it got
cancelled. Did you know that there were three more episodes produced
that were never aired in the U.S. They were aired in Europe, however.
I'd love to see them. I have the other 10 on tape. I really should
watch them again some time.
CM> Frankly, I'm sick to death of being force fed addlebrained sitcoms.
CM> Every time they get a show that requires a little intellect to
CM> appreciate, it gets cancelled first season, especially SF series.
