* Origin: Cumberland BBS TN 615/526-3347 V34 (1:3637/1)
Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
Msg : 23 of 106
From : Channon Lang 1:130/809 .ōp 06 .åâ 96 05:41
To : Chris Ogniben
Subj : Re: Babylon 5's sex scene
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From a dark bottomless pit,Chris Ogniben screamed up to Channon Lang about
Babylon 5's sex scene..
CO>
CO> Hey if there is a new episode tomorrow night for Babylon 5. I like
CO> for someone to inform me, like give me a little info, as to what you
CO> seen in the preview. I just missed it, since i am sick and tired of
CO> waiting for new episodes. Just pearing on upn 9, at 8 pm to just
CO> check and see if it is a new episode, if not i move onto something
CO> else.
Well, I'm sorry I didn't get this message in time to tell you about the
new episode...it was last night. Kinda really interesting....Meeting new
peoples...and possible a new reoccuring character (personally I hope she
doesn't...one of those real annoying types).
We've had problems with our bbs the last few days...hubby tried to upgrade
and the new program hates us or something. I'm sorry it took so long to get
to you.
Channon
... Oh Chef of the Future, can it core a apple?
--- MachoEcho 0.5ņ
* Origin: The State of Confusion * Arlington Tx * 817-274-1920 * (1:130/809)
Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
Msg : 24 of 106
From : Channon Lang 1:130/809 .ōp 06 .åâ 96 05:41
To : Kim Wheat
Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From a dark bottomless pit,Kim Wheat screamed up to Chris Ogniben about Star
Trek..
KW> Hi Chris,
KW> You're talking to the 'expert' in foot-in-mouth disease-ism!! :>
KW> But as a famous person once sprouted, "It takes a great man to admit
KW> he overstepped his lip!"
KW> Enjoy yourself, Chris!!
KW> Kim :)
Hi Kim!!! I didn't realize you were in this echo too!! Nice to see a familiar
name!!! I think Chris has already swallowed his foot...there's not much
we can do about him...
Now, back on topic....Whatd'ya think of B5 last night??? Did you watch
VOYAGER--the new one, that is...?
Channon
... Tell me, do YOU know where your towel is???
--- MachoEcho 0.5ņ
* Origin: The State of Confusion * Arlington Tx * 817-274-1920 * (1:130/809)
Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
Msg : 25 of 106
From : Channon Lang 1:130/809 .pä 07 .åâ 96 19:17
To : Elizabeth H. Penrose
Subj : Re: The Guide and it's Incarnations...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From a dark bottomless pit,Elizabeth H. Penrose screamed up to Otto Cordray
about The Guide and it's Incarnations.....
EHP> ("Hey, boast, Woman!") I have a boxed set of "The Lost Treasures of
EHP> Infocom," including many Zorks, the circus detective game Ballyhoo,
EHP> Planetfall and The Hitchhiker's Guide. Now if I could only set them
EHP> up . . .
Oooooooo!!!!! I've got that one too!!...It's got hints and everything, right?
I've had lots of fun with it...In fact, I'm sitting here and listening to
Hitchhiker's Guide---the radio series on tape.
What kind of problems are you having setting it up?
Channon
... Tell me, do YOU know where your towel is???
--- MachoEcho 0.5ņ
* Origin: The State of Confusion * Arlington Tx * 817-274-1920 * (1:130/809)
Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
Msg : 26 of 106
From : Don Dellmann 1:154/40 .åō 08 .åâ 96 04:55
To : Chris Carter
Subj : Books
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While tripping merrily through the mail, Chris Carter was overheard
DD> I don't bother with the blurb. I open the book at random, read
DD> one page. If I want to turn the page, I buy the book.
CC> That's a curious strategy. Mind if I borrow it?
Be my guest.
Don
... Gotta run. My neighbors just sighted Elvis making crop circles.
---
* Origin: Anonymous BBS -=- Non plus Ultra -=- 414-251-2580 (1:154/40)
Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
Msg : 27 of 106
From : Ecarey 1:101/230 .îí 05 .åâ 96 12:42
To : Phill Ash
Subj : STAR TREK SEXISM
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
>RL> 5. Yes, women want legal equality and political equality. They want
>RL> equal pay for equal work. They want to be respected just like men
>RL> want to be respected.
>RL> 6. They want to have career opportunities open to them.
>
PA> You're generalizing. I've met several "wimmin" who long for
> a
> complete reversal of 1960's roles.
How is this worse than, or even different from, men who want a complete return
to those extremely rigid sex roles? In either case, we're talking about a
minority, not about the usual views of the average man or woman.
>RL> 9. In traditional times men brought up their sons in the ethnic
>RL> and cultural traditions of their society. I wonder why men have
>RL> often reneged on this responsibility. However, I don't believe
>RL> that women's emancipatiuon caused all of this in any way.
>
> Bull. As recently as the 1960's, children of either sex
> were
> primarily reared by "stay at home" mothers who, generally,
> had
> been reared to be (and do) exactly that. Since the
Well, no. The practice of the women of the working class and middle class
_staying home_ and having no work that contributed _economically_ to the support
of the household was an abberation, a post-war phenomenon that was entirely the
product of the post-war economic boom in the USA. Prior to that, _all_ adults
below the economic upper classes _had_ to contribute economically to the support
of the household.
Women's work tended in most cases to be work that could be done _in_ the home or
very nearby, and the girls and the _young_ boys stayed home where the mother
could supervise them and teach the girls "women's work".
The boys, once past the age of five or so, were expected to start joining the
father at his work, and learn _that_.
The onset of the industrial age changed this only to the extent that somewhat
more women were likely to work outside for part of their adult lives, and sons
had a somewhat greater chance of doing different work than their fathers had.
But the basic social transition of the boys at the proper age passing from
female supervision to male supervision, so that they could learn the role of an
adult male in their society, remained in existence down to the late 1940s, when
the postwar economic boom, for the first time in history, made it possible for
one working adult of the working class to support two adults and all their
children. It's at _that_ point that raising _all_ the children to adulthood
became "women's work", and women, for a _very_ brief period, ceased to do
economically productive work after marriage [or at least, after starting their
families.]
In practice, of course, even in the 1950s, it wasn't quite that neat and
orderly, and there were plenty of families that didn't fit the new stereotype
even then, when the stereotype was at its height and before the recovery of
Europe started to restore the economic realities to something closer to what
they had been throughout history.
Now, people who grew up during and after the fifties, and who have never studied
social & economic history in any depth, think that the abberation of the 1950s
represents "normalcy", and cry out against the reversion to _real_ normalcy,
wherein both parents have to work to produce income for the family, and can't
recognize the _real_ abberation of modern times - that we no longer have social
systems in place to _support_ the necessary fact of two working parents and
their need to provide safely for their children while they work.
--- FLAME v1.0
* Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)
Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
Msg : 28 of 106
From : Ecarey 1:101/230 .îí 05 .åâ 96 12:45
To : Frank Swarbrick
Subj : SPACE: ABOVE & BEYOND EPI
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
>-> Space: Above and Beyond created by Glen Morgan and James Wong
>-> But I heard something that the show will be cancelled...
>SM> Where did you hear this, do you know if it can be stoped.
>
FS> Hmm...I, for one, haven't heard anything about it being cancelled.
> I
> *do* know that they spend around $2 million per episode, more than
> even DSN or Voyager. I don't know if this makes them more or less
> likely to cancel it...!
It's doing better in the ratings against 60 MINUTES than anything else has ever
done - this is not to say that it's doing _well_ in the ratings, but the fact
that it's even doing _respectably_ against 60 MINUTES is sufficiently
unprecedented that they're very unlikely to cancel it. They're more likely to
move it to a less desperate time slot.
--- FLAME v1.0
* Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)
Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
Msg : 29 of 106
From : Christian Raven 1:393/7 .pä 07 .åâ 96 18:59
To : Robert Lidgren
Subj : Re: Star Trek Sexism
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
RL> thoughts.
RL> 3. Is your attitude merely mysogyny in disguise?
RL> 4. Most of us have many women in our lives and I for one have found NOT
RL> ONE
RL> who wants to be a man.
RL> 5. Yes, women want legal equality and political equality. They want
RL> equal pay
RL> for equal work. They want to be respected just like men want to be
RL> respected.
RL> 6. They want to have career opportunities open to them.
RL> 7. Some men find the changes in traditional women's roles threatening or
RL> at
RL> least they now ask questions about their own identitiy and roles.
RL> The "Men's Movement" in its many incarnations sometimes tries to
RL> make sense of this and redefine waht being a man really is.
RL> The warrior model may have slightly outlived its usefulness.
RL> 8. What many men need to do is provide strong and positive role-models
RL> for their sons. The burgeoning single-parent family leaves plenty
RL> young men without a good role model so they often turn to gang leaders
RL> or drug-dealers as models for how to get ahead.
RL> 9. In traditional times men brought up their sons in the ethnic and
RL> cultural
RL> traditions of their society. I wonder why men have often reneged on
RL> this
RL> responsibility. However, I don't believe that women's emancipatiuon
RL> caused all of this in any way.
RL> 10. Change is always threatening and sometimes anomie or a sense of
RL> "normlessness" sets in when young men no longer know just who they are
RL> or
RL> what goals they should set for themselves. The fact that women have
RL> become stronger or "appear" to be stronger is merely their free choice
RL> to
RL> make changes in the way they have been treated.
RL> 11. I would suggest that intelligent women are not all man-haters and
RL> don't
RL> see THAT as what defines them.
