time to think about what Joe has said in the past and about the whole Markab
plague business. The Markab are *not* the major race that Joe meant. The Narn
are.
JK>> nice touch, a rather brutal kind of lesson, and something that
JK>> most of the fans weren't expecting. As for the Markab being a
JK>> "major
JH> A little foreshadowing might have been nice... as it is, it
JH> almost seems more of an AIDS parable than anything else.
Personally, I thought it was something of an AIDS parable, but I think in
actual fact it relates more to the Black Death kind of thing. That killed
three-quarters of the population of Europe when it struck, and the death of the
Markab species struck a chord in the same fashion for me.
JK>> race" or not, who knows what they might have accomplished
JK>> during the series? Their legends spoke of the Shadows and
JK>> their servants, so perhaps the plague wasn't an "accident
JK>> of nature" at all. :)
JH> Hey now, let's not get TOO paranoid about 'em! Now, back to
JH> my theory about how the Shadows are behind Bureau 13...
*chuckle* hehe Yeah, there's that element of paranoia that strikes, but
with B5 you can't help it. :) It was just a thought that crossed my mind,
simply because there's now a de-populated world that has all sorts of potential.
JK> JH>> While I'm thinking of it, someone mentioned the
JK> JH>> number 2.5 showing up in B5 a number of times, do you
JK> JH>> suppose it's also a coincidence that both station
JK> JH>> captions happen to share the creator's first and last
JK> JH>> initials? ;)
JK>> I'm not sure I understand what you mean here...
JH> Jeff Sinclair.
JH> John Sheridan.
JH> J.M. S.
JH> ^ ^ Notice a trend? It's as if the captain character is
JH> his alter-ego.
The reason I didn't understand what you meant here was because you wrote
"caption" in place of "captain" in the above... :) That said, Joe has said
numerous times that there's no coincidental about it and that it wasn't
deliberate on his part.
JH> Speaking of which, do you know if JMS has ever appeared in
JH> the series as a background actor?
Nope, Joe has never appeared in the series because he feels that he's not
photogenic enough and because he doesn't do that sort of things on series that
he writes and produces. Ron Thornton and a couple of the other folks have
appeared in the series before, however.
John
.....
We'd give you a part my love, but you'd have to play the fool.
--- GoldED/2 2.42.G0614
* Origin: JohnK's OS/2Warp Point - Ottawa, Ontario (1:163/198.5)
Д [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДД SFFAN Д
Msg : 225 of 322
From : John Kahane 1:163/198.5 .тp 13 .юн 95 19:20
To : Jeff Hancock
Subj : Vorlon Immortality 3.1
ДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДД
In a message of , Jeff Hancock scribed:
JK> JK> JK>>>> with Kosh's earlier talk with Sheridan about
JK> JK> JK>>>> teaching and preparing him "to fight legends."
JK> JK> JH>>> Yes, but what legends exactly?
JK> JK>>> The legends are the Shadows, obviously. Since they are
JK> JH>> Yes, but... They'd be our legends too, and what legends
JK> JH>> are there on Earth of anything like the Shadows?
JK>> One never knows, does one? I could have said "Only the
JK>> Shadow(s) know"... but that would have been rather tacky
JK>> of me.
JH> Yes, it would have been.
:) And I wouldn't do something like that. :)
JH> Guess I'll just have to assume that they're legends of B5's
JH> Earth, and not ours, without getting too generic. At least
JH> Za'ha'dum wasn't brimstone and fire pits.
Now *that* would have been tacky. :) Mind you, I was half expecting
something like the mines of Moria or some such, and it was sort of like that.
Very evil feel, very evil looking place, and very sad. As for the legends part,
I've got to agree on this one...that's pretty much my take on it.
JK>> Yes, similar enough to the legends of other races, that
JK>> there is a very large grain of truth here. No different
JK>> than some of the legends that we see on Earth. All cultures
JK>> have vampire legends of some sort, faeries are common to
JK>> quite a few cultures (even if the nature and shape of
JK>> faeries differs), dragons in Eastern tales, and the like.
JH> True, true... but I'd like to see how the Shadows fit in
JH> with *our* legends, if there is any equivalancy.
And once we learn more about the Shadows, you may get your wish about
this. There's just so much going on in the B5 storyline that we don't know, and
the Shadows are a large part of this right now.
JH> Even allowing for differences, such as the difference between
JH> dragons of one story or another, what do the Shadows resemble
JH> other than just "demons" or "devilspawn"?
That's not enough? :) But as for dragons, I'm not talking about stories
here, I'm talking about cultures. Sure, dragons (as the example) have
similarities between all cultures in the folklore, but there are differences -
sometimes vast ones. There's a biiiiiiiig difference between cultural tales and
mere stories.
JK> JK>>> I don't think so. The Shadows that we saw in "ItSoZ"
JK> JK>>> didn't appear to be spider-like to me at all.
JK> JH>> Then what do you think they look like? I dunno, I see
JK> JH>> the eyes, the legs, the shape, and think spider.
JK>> I'm not going to comment on what they look like at this
JK>> point.
JH> What do you mean, you won't comment?
Exactly that. :)
JH> If you were going to describe the Shadows to someone, what
JH> would you say? Without going into some convoluted "cross
JH> between a" description, "spider" is the closest (although
JH> still a good bit off) animal I can think to compare them to.
I would have to say, assuming I was going to say anything, that they
reminded me of a cross between a spider and a preying mantis. But my
original thoughts on the Shadows when they first appeared with their ships was
more octopoidal. Whereas Kosh's ship struck me more as squid-like. However, I
prefer Joe's description of the Shadows - they're spider-like, but not spiders.
JK>> Suffice it to say, I have a distinct theory about the
JK>> Shadows. And the creature we saw on Z'ha'dum didn't
JK>> appear to be spider-like at all, like I said. :)
JH> So let's hear it, then. Or are you waiting for it to be
JH> revealed so you can say "I knew that"? ;)
Nope, I'm not waiting for that at all. Suffice it to say, that I just
don't want to get into a long, drawn-out argument about this when we have a good
four months before seeing anything new in B5.
John
.....
We'd give you a part my love, but you'd have to play the fool.
--- GoldED/2 2.42.G0614
* Origin: JohnK's OS/2Warp Point - Ottawa, Ontario (1:163/198.5)
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Msg : 226 of 322
From : John Kahane 1:163/198.5 .тp 13 .юн 95 19:29
To : Jeff Hancock
Subj : Vorlon Immortality 3.2
ДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДДД
In a message of , Jeff Hancock scribed:
JK> JH>> Someone needs to update the Logbook, then.
JK>> Personally, the Logbook is a wonderful thing, but it's
JK>> based on supposition and assumptions made by the writer.
JH> What else, if there's no author contact? At least with B5
JH> there is, for a change.
The fact that there is author contact means that changes and modifications
should be made to it on a constant basis. That's been my experience with other
things of a similar nature. Heck, the B5 files that I created are constantly
undergoing change. The only stuff that isn't are the episode guides and reviews
(of the ones that are complete).
JK>> hasn't updated the thing, or that he didn't pay attention
JK>> to what Joe said about this (if the writer has access to
JK>> Internet/GEnie at all) is another matter. But if you're
JK>> going to do something like the Logbook, then you've got to
JK>> update it once per season, so...
JH> So you think this will be fixed next time around?
I should hope it would be. And more often than once per season. Probably
twice per year, if nothing else.
JK> JH>> Let's hope so, and while they're at it, when does JMS say
JK> JH>> we'll hear from Draal again?
JK>> Later this season, Jeff.
JH> *This* season? Unveiling of Kosh *and* Draal *and* some other
JH> unspecified "ohmigosh" happenings in only what appear to
JH> possibly be the four most important episodes so far that due
JH> to the total idiocy of corporate sponsorship are only going to
JH> be shown once four months from now? Say it ain't so.
It's so, Jeff, it's so... *sigh* :< The only good news right now is that
the Brits and Euros aren't going to see it until after the Americans do. A
minor consolation, I suppose. :)
JK> JK> JK>>>> I wouldn't be surprised to find something totally
JK> JK> JK>>>> predictable underneath the Vorlon encounter suit.
JK> JK> JH>>> I suppose he'll look like the classic cliche of God?
JK> JK>>> Nope, not like God or an angel. That's been the
JK> JK>>> consensus on some of the B5 echoes and newsgroups, and
JK> JK>>> to be honest with you,
JK> JH>> What was the consensus, that Kosh would, or wouldn't?
JK>> That Kosh would look like an angel or God, but since
JK>> Joe's said that only one person got it right, well... ;)
JH> Well what, you're waiting to find out it'll be you? ;)
Nope, I wasn't even on Usenet at that time. :)
JH> So what's your predictable, yet almost totally overlooked
JH> hypothesis?
Nice try, but no cigar. :) Frankly, I just don't think Kosh is going to
be something like a predictable figure out of religion or some such. That would
be kind of silly, given the science fiction nature of B5, for one thing; for
another, the business about the angels and all would tie in to the Minbari soul
business I suspect, and that would be too much coincidence - sort of like giving
Sinclair the connection to the Shadows as well.
JK>> Could be. I don't personally think so, since that
JK>> doesn't seem to make sense within the context of the First
JK>> Ones, and Joe's a bit more subtle than that, imo.
JH> I'd prefer it if he'd just use the brick method on this one. ;)
He can't use the brick method on this one, Jeff, simply because there's
been so much hype and all around this element of the series that a lot of fans
are likely to be very disappointed with the outcome, regardless.
JH> Well, as you will know from the online chat, Joe has said
JH> that "the story will be told", in one form or another.
Yeah, there is that. :) Even if we don't know what he means by it, or
what form it might take. Personally, I don't know whether it would effectively
come across in novels or comics or whatever medium...tv is where it's at,
although I could see films. However, he'd need a backer for that.
JH> ...the top syndicated shows, and B5 wasn't even on the top
JH> twenty. Granted it's doing reruns, but still... How does it
JH> usually rank?
JMS has said, iirc, that B5 ranks consistently in the top ten syndicated
shows, and that it's been in the better half of that circle for long periods of
time during first-run episodes. But don't quote me on that - it's been a long
time since I've seen a ratings post from him.
John
.....
We'd give you a part my love, but you'd have to play the fool.
--- GoldED/2 2.42.G0614
* Origin: JohnK's OS/2Warp Point - Ottawa, Ontario (1:163/198.5)
