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wisdom passed down to the Religious caste members who join the Council. This
would certainly explain Neroon's ignorance of something this basic, which you'd
think he'd comment on.

 JK> JH>> And do you suppose the "conference" Talia referred to
 JK> JH>> during her first scene was the event covered in the B5
 JK> JH>> book _Voices_?
 JK>> That seems to make as much sense as anything else.  And it
 JK>> would be a reasonable assumption to make, based on Talia's
 JK>> comments about the "conference" mentioned in passing in the
 JK>> episode.

 JH> All she said about it was that "things were rather hectic".
 JH> How many conferences have you been to that were hectic without
 JH> what happened in _Voices_? ;)

     Hey, I just said that it seemed reasonable to me.  Besides, JMS said that
the books are canon and that they would be "incorporated" into the series
continuity.  Without making fans who've not read the first book feel like they'd
missed something, the reference is one that those fans who've read the book can
nod and smile at, while the rest of the fans aren't all that worried about it.
Speaking of the books, John Vornholt posted a message noting that the next book
in the series, his _Blood Oath_ (dealing with the Narns) won't be out until late
in the year. :(

A good bookshop is just a genteel Black Hole that knows how to read. (G!G!)

--- GoldED 2.41
 * Origin: JohnK's Point OS/2Warp - Ottawa, Ontario (1:163/198.5)

 [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5)  SFFAN 
 Msg  : 38 of 384
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .p 24 . 95 12:47
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Vorlon Immortality /2

In a message of , Jeff Hancock scribed:

                          SPOILER ALERT!!!
                           / _________ \
                          / /         \ \
         / ______________________________________________ \
        / /                                              \ \
       / /                                                \ \
       \ \                                                / /
         \ \                       ____________________ / /
           \ \                    l-------------------  /
             \ \                                    / /
             /   \                                /   \
            / / \  \               ____________ /  / \ \
           / /    \  \            l-----------   /    \ \
          / /      /   \                    /   \      \ \
         / /      /  /\  \                /  /\  \      \ \
         \ \_____/  /   \  \            /  /   \  \_____/ /
          \________/      \  \________/  /      \________/

 JK> JH>> And I'm still confused as how to anyone, especially
 JK> JH>> people who would know nothing of the "first ones", would
 JK> JH>> recognize Kosh as being one unless it was some universal
 JK> JH>> interracial
 JK>> There could be all sorts of things that could be asked here,
 JK>> Jeff. :)

 JH> Like?

     Well, I can't think of anything right off the top, Jeff...  But we don't
know all that much about some of the races, although there have been hints in
the medical episodes about physiologies and the like.  "Confessions and
Lamentations" had one of these as well, in a very sad context.  Brilliant story,
btw, and right up there with "Believers" as a Franklin episode.

 JK>> I suspect that a lot of this has to do with Kosh's earlier
 JK>> talk with Sheridan about teaching and preparing him "to fight
 JK>> legends."

 JH> Yes, but what legends exactly?

     The legends are the Shadows, obviously.  Since they are a race that was old
when the other Ancient races (such as the Vorlons) were young, it makes sense
they would be considered legends.  (JMS has also said the race that Catherine
Sakai encountered at Sigma 957 is another of these races, too...)

 JH> And how is it that every race (apparently) would have the
 JH> same exact legends?

     Not necessarily the same set of legends, Jeff.  G'Kar's reference work from
G'Quan is a religious text, one that is obviously not given much accreditation
(as we've seen so far), although the Kha'Ri seems to have paid it more attention
of late.  But stories are told late at night about all kinds of horrific things
in the past, and these are passed on as legends, myths, fables, that sort of
thing.  "Confessions and Lamentations" has another good example of this, that
the Markab doctor tells Franklin.  Watch for it, and I won't spoil your
enjoyment of that episode again.

 JH> I don't recall any Earth legends involving giant spiders, for
 JH> one... unless this is another LOTR jab. 

     While it's possible, and I suspect that Joe would disclaim it, I don't
think so.  The Shadows that we saw in "ItSoZ" didn't appear to be spider-like to
me at all.

 JK>> Given the origins of the Vorlons, the Shadows, and perhaps
 JK>> the race whose ship Catherine Sakai encountered at Sigma 957
 JK>> (as JMS has hinted at

 JH> Ah yes, I don't think we ever finished that discussion. The
 JH> Logbook writer seems to think that was the first appearance
 JH> of the Shadows, but you say JMS disagrees?

     Not disagrees, totally different.  Joe says that the race that Catherine
encountered at Sigma 957 was another of the Ancient Ones, a race that is no
longer concerned with affairs of the little races from its time.  He's also said
that some stuff will be clarified about this race...whatever that meant. :)

 JK>> I wouldn't be surprised to find something totally predictable
 JK>> underneath the Vorlon encounter suit.

 JH> Like what, an angel? That's not universal even on Earth... I
 JH> suspect everyone with any contact of civilization would
 JH> recognize one, but that's still not "Every one". I suppose
 JH> he'll look like the classic cliche of God?

     Nope, not like God or an angel.  That's been the consensus on some of the
B5 echoes and newsgroups, and to be honest with you, I don't think that JMS
would do something like that.  I suppose it's possible, given the emphasis on
souls and stuff that we've seen in the series to this point...

 JK>> Btw, have you seen "Knives" yet?  Interesting episode,
 JK>> and one

 JH> Yep. Just once, though... haven't dubbed it, and missed the
 JH> re-airing.

     I'm not sure what you mean about the dubbing of the episode, but never

 JH> BTW, I'm not sure B5 will really make it in syndication...
 JH> something I keep meaning to bring up but never do is that
 JH> stations have this nasty habit of cutting bits on reruns, and
 JH> while it may not matter much for your average sitcom, just
 JH> think how it would affect B5's story.

     B5 is not the same kind of series as ST and the like, and therefore I think
the syndication of such a series would be more difficult.  I like to think that
the popularity of the series, and an interest in seeing the entire run of the
series (depending on how long it stays on the air) re-air depends on other
factors.  But let's face it...B5 has been on the air barely two years, and
that's not long enough to have the show start airing in syndie.

 JH> Reason I mention this is that I did catch the station showing
 JH> it here cutting a bit on the second showing from the original
 JH> twice;

     This is something that I've noticed on the local station here in Ottawa,
but it's not something that the FOX network has done at all.  One of the reasons
why I watch the FOX episode and tape that one, rather than the local one.  Even
with the horrible, midnight on Tuesday time slot. :(

The significant owl hoots in the night. (G!G!)

--- GoldED 2.41
 * Origin: JohnK's Point OS/2Warp - Ottawa, Ontario (1:163/198.5)

 [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5)  SFFAN 
 Msg  : 39 of 384
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .p 24 . 95 12:53
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Vorlon Immortality

On Tue May 23, Todd Sullivan said to Chris Carter:

CC >A fellow on rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5 proposed that Kosh is
CC >actually a large sentient Big Mac.

 -TS>AAARRRRRGH!  "Run awaaaaayyy!" :)

It's ambassador McCheese. And the Vorlon Burgler.

--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

 [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5)  SFFAN 
 Msg  : 40 of 384
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .p 24 . 95 13:02
 To   : Scott Gates
 Subj : B5 Catch-Up

On , Scott Gates wrote to Kay Shapero:

 KS>> For those on the net, John Kahane has been doing detailed
 KS>> synopses of each episode, posting them to the Babylon 5 echo
 KS>> and also making them available ascii text (archived by ARJ)
 KS>> for file request or download.  The system is Brian & Wendy's
 KS>> BBS (1:163/598).  I've got a current list around here
 KS>> that posted recently if you want a copy.

 SG> Do you know how I could get these from internet ftp?

     Unless someone's posted them up to the internet sites, as far as I'm aware
they're not available on the Internet side of things.  I could be wrong, but it
would be nice if the creator of said files was made aware of these things. :)

Moules (n.):  A game of skill and dexterity, involving tortoises. (G!G!)

--- GoldED 2.41
 * Origin: JohnK's Point OS/2Warp - Ottawa, Ontario (1:163/198.5)

 [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5)  SFFAN 
 Msg  : 41 of 384
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .p 24 . 95 13:04
 To   : Scott Gates
 Subj : SeaQuest

On , Scott Gates wrote to John Kahane:

 FE>> Same goes for the first season of SeaQuest.

 JK>> Yep, same here.  Pity what they did with the series in
 JK>> the second seas *sigh* :(

 SG> Yeah, with only a few exceptions, SeaQuest's second season
 SG> Sucks.  The babes ain't bad though.

     Frankly, based on this post and a couple of others that I've seen from you,
you sound sexist when it comes to some of these sf series.  If the "babes" are
why you and a lot of the audience are watching this stuff, it's no wonder why
there's such a turn-around on sf series on tv.

     The *stories* in SEAQUEST's second season are what were pathetic, not the
characters.  The characters, particularly the telepath/doctor and the Dagger,
could have been made very interesting, but as usual the series concentrated on
the wrong things.  SEAQUEST lost its edge, its driving force, when the producer
decided to go with science fantasy as opposed to science fiction and an
ecological mind set.  Stacy Haiduk's commander in the first season was a
terrific character, because she was a *strong* female role model and because she
had an interesting past.  The character in the second season, such as Edward
Kerr's (can't remember his name), Henderson, Piccolo, and some of the others
were...boring and undeveloped.  Personally, I don't understand *why* the series
was renewed for a third year...

You had to hand it to the Patrician. If you didn't, he sent men to come and take
it away. (G!G!)

--- GoldED 2.41
 * Origin: JohnK's Point OS/2Warp - Ottawa, Ontario (1:163/198.5)

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