-> a tatoo artist has proven to me that the female sex is striving to the
-> extreme to become male. sometimes i laugh... but i always give them their
-> tat's. i
1. How on earth does getting a tatoo in ANY WAY imply women want to be men?
2. If you have evidence or a "gut feeling" for this do share your thoughts.
3. Is your attitude merely mysogyny in disguise?
4. Most of us have many women in our lives and I for one have found NOT ONE
who wants to be a man.
5. Yes, women want legal equality and political equality. They want equal pay
for equal work. They want to be respected just like men want to be
respected.
6. They want to have career opportunities open to them.
7. Some men find the changes in traditional women's roles threatening or at
least they now ask questions about their own identitiy and roles.
The "Men's Movement" in its many incarnations sometimes tries to
make sense of this and redefine waht being a man really is.
The warrior model may have slightly outlived its usefulness.
8. What many men need to do is provide strong and positive role-models
for their sons. The burgeoning single-parent family leaves plenty
young men without a good role model so they often turn to gang leaders
or drug-dealers as models for how to get ahead.
9. In traditional times men brought up their sons in the ethnic and cultural
traditions of their society. I wonder why men have often reneged on this
responsibility. However, I don't believe that women's emancipatiuon
caused all of this in any way.
10. Change is always threatening and sometimes anomie or a sense of
"normlessness" sets in when young men no longer know just who they are or
what goals they should set for themselves. The fact that women have
become stronger or "appear" to be stronger is merely their free choice to
make changes in the way they have been treated.
11. I would suggest that intelligent women are not all man-haters and don't
see THAT as what defines them.
At any rate, the thread you spawned about sexism has resulted in sometimes
thoughtful and sometimes down-right angry responses. I just thought I'd take
you at your word and offer some observations. Hatred betwen men and women is
not the way to go and women being in roles of leadership, like the Janeway
character in "Voyager" ned not turn men into quivering globs of uncoordinated
protoplasm.
Mind you, not everthing in the feminist movement is healthy and I think that
Camille Paglia brings some balance and common sense to the debate. I recommend
her collection of shorter writings in "Vamps and Tramps." It made me see these
issues with new insights not often found in some of the mainstream feminist
thinkers. In fact many of them detest Paglia and think of her as an enemy.
Oh well, it is true there are more STRONG women characters in science fiction
now and, you know what, there have been strong women all through history - now
the difference is that what they can and cannot do and can and cannot say is
closer to what men hav enjoyed for centuries. Like it or not, welcome to the
new reality - but it ain't true that most women want to be men INMHO!
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
Msg : 186 of 285
From : ROBERT LIDGREN 1:134/10 .pä 31 .íâ 96 17:40
To : FRANK GLOVER
Subj : X-FILES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> I wonder if this episode wasn't meant to air two weeks earlier?
-> January 12 (when the girls were born) happens to be *my* birthday.
-> I was also espically amused by the astrologer checking his employer's
-> credit....
->
-> Mulder: "I'm a Federal Agent!"
->
-> Astrologer: "Last I heard, the Federal Government couldn't pay its
-> bills!"
I have read dozens of reactions to the episode but many of them focus on the
poor treatment Scully got from Mulder. This may portend further troubles. On
the other hand, some might balme it all on the planetary conjustion business.
And many people didn't like it because it was too frenetic - too weird - too
hard to get a handle on.
But, you know what, I was delighted by the lighter touch and found it to be
very entertaining. Even the stuff from Scully about: "Why do you have to
drive - is it some Macho thing, Mulder?" was handled convincingly. The smoking
by Scully and the vodka consumption by Mulder showed a high degree of
frustration now plumbed to these depths in any epsidoe to date. Something's up
here - further evolution in their characters. I liked it despite the fact that
thousands didn't. But then again I was among only 7 or 8 people in North
America who got a kick out of parts of the mega-panned movie "Ishtar!" [That
was the Warren Beatty/Dustin Hoffman bomb.]
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
Msg : 187 of 285
From : ROBERT LIDGREN 1:134/10 .pä 31 .íâ 96 17:45
To : FRANK SWARBRICK
Subj : X-FILES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> I wouldn't call it one of the best, but it was definately good. I'm
-> surprised they showed it so close to "War of the Coprophages," the most
-> recent new one before this, which was also a laugh riot. Still, I'm glad to
-> see they still have their sense of humor. A lot of people were saying
-> earlier in this season that it wasn't as good as the last two, but with
-> recent episodes I'd have to disagree. It's as great as ever!
The point, I think, is that there is "room" in the X-Files saga for some
diversions and risk-taking. Shoot, "ready-shoot-aim" isn't always a bad
approach. Chris Carter has proven that time and again!
-> I also liked it having female villans, something they rarely do. There's
-> "Eve," of course, but I can't think of any others offhand. Oh, the demon in
-> "Die Hand, Die Verletzt." Maybe another somewhere,
Some of the teen-spawned carnage echoed the Stephen King story filmed in Carrie
but not with nearly the angst nor power. I thought Spacek, in that movie, did
a brilliant job.
The Bruckman episode was also a great one due to the way we never were quite
sure what was coming up next. I like the more recent unpredictablity of Scully
and Mulder too. It shows we are in for further experimentation with the
partners.
Oh well, just a few random thoughts.
BTW: Both Duchuvny and Anderson continue to grow as actors and that, more than
anything is a refreshing thing to see.
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Msg : 188 of 285
From : Otto Cordray 1:106/1393 .åō 01 .åâ 96 09:11
To : Frank Glover
Subj : Not Darth
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FG> So if anyone does show up, hope it's Michael Renne,
FG> and not Darth Vader
...or the Vogons :).
-Otto
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
Msg : 189 of 285
From : Robert Siemborski 1:2604/214 .îí 29 .íâ 96 16:54
To : Nicolai Shapero
Subj : Re: nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
>This subject has been declared off topic. Please return to the subject
>matter of this conference (science fiction and science fiction fandom) in
>future posts.
>
>Thank you for your cooperation,
>
>-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo
THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!!!!! I was getting tired of skipping 20+ posts a day!
- Rob -
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Msg : 190 of 285
From : Robert Siemborski 1:2604/214 .îí 29 .íâ 96 16:55
To : Jeff Hancock
Subj : Re: Babylon 5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
>The line was given away in the B5 magazine.
^^^^^^^^^^^
These things exist? GIMMIE GIMMIE GIMMIE GIMMIE! ;-)
(Not the line, some things are worth waiting for)
- Rob -
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
Msg : 191 of 285
From : Robert Siemborski 1:2604/214 .îí 29 .íâ 96 16:59
To : Phill Ash
Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
> Now that Torres is capable of constructing a 'sub'Soong-class
> android, will she do so?
Remember, the units that she has the specs for wound up killing their masters.
I don't think that would be a positive end to the Voyager series.
> Voyager will eventually need additional crew as all the extras
> get kilt.
Yes, but man-killer robots don't seem like a logical replacement.
> 2 justifications for...
> 2 reasons she should...
Paraphrased:
2 justifications against...
2 reasons she shoudn't...
- Rob -
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
Msg : 192 of 285
From : Robert Siemborski 1:2604/214 .îí 29 .íâ 96 19:51
To : J.t. Smith
Subj : Re: NUCLEAR
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
>... Profanity: The language all programmers know.
"Allow programmers to write programs in english, and you will find that
programmers can not write in english."
I guess this is why.
The exceeding apologetic for being excessively off-topic,
- Rob -
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
Msg : 193 of 285
From : Robert Siemborski 1:2604/214 .îí 29 .íâ 96 19:53
To : Anders Danebo
Subj : Re: Babylon 5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
>RS > The lurker's guide if you have WWW access:
>RS > http://www.hyperion.com/lurk
>RS > Don't know the EXACT URL, but it is listed on the main
>RS > page.
>
>Thanx ,i may get hold of a internet account soon so it is usefull...
>Thank you once again
You're welcome. It's an execlent site with synoposes and quotes from JMS about
each episode. Really good stuff. It also has analysis and notes. It's all
sorted too.
- Rob -
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
Msg : 194 of 285
From : Frank Glover 1:2613/477 .îí 29 .íâ 96 20:35
To : Phill Ash
Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
PA> She knows how to reverse the cyber-vasectomy.
PA>
PA> The Doc could use a real body (and a name).
