* Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 3.1 GIG * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)
Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
Msg : 36 of 322
From : Frank Eva 1:154/750 .īķ 05 .žķ 95 08:12
To : Frank Glover
Subj : Confessions & Lamenta
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.bA 8060
FG> Less physically attractive, too. Some people look *better* as an
FG>alien than a human. Robin Curtis is one...Mira Furlan, IMHO, is
FG>another.
Agreed! However, she still looks better than she did in the pilot. She
looked almost manly, then...
---
* Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 3.1 GIG * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)
Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
Msg : 37 of 322
From : Frank Eva 1:154/750 .īķ 05 .žķ 95 08:12
To : Michael Vergara
Subj : Confessions & Lamentation
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.bA 8060
MV> FE> which sympathy is needed (Confessions & Lamentations). I find
MV> FE> it hard to equate Delenn with the warrior race that brought
MV> FE> Earth to its knees...
MV>Then again, she isn't a warrior. The Minbari are divided into
MV>seperate castes, like the religious and the warrior (Delenn being a
MV>member of the religious caste, I think). Not all of the Minbari are
MV>warriors, just like not all politicians are lawyers.
Well, my point was that she does not equate to the race her people in
general represented to Earth... a dangerous threat based on their
military capability. Remember, prior to the "change", Delenn was a
member of the Gray Council, the same group that was responsible for
TORTURING Sinclair.
--- CMPQwk 1.42-R2 #145 ---
Beam me aboard, Scotty... "Will a 2x4 do, Captain?"
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* Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 3.1 GIG * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)
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Msg : 38 of 322
From : Frank Eva 1:154/750 .īķ 05 .žķ 95 08:12
To : Lori Brown
Subj : White Dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.bA 8060
LB>I agree. Found it very boring...especially for the first hour of it.
LB>Was only slightly more interesting the 2nd hour. I'm sure it was the
LB>pilot for a series...haven't heard if it was picked up. Hope not.
Same here... I can't imagine a series based on such a boring pilot!
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* Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 3.1 GIG * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)
Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
Msg : 39 of 322
From : John Kahane 1:163/198.5 .īķ 05 .žķ 95 10:30
To : Jeff Hancock
Subj : Vorlon Immortality
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message of , Jeff Hancock scribed:
*************Minor Spoiler Warning******************
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JK>> SPOILER ALERT!!!
JH> Still?
Yep... You never know who's not seen the episode in question yet, so it
makes sense to do so...
JH> BTW, I thought the next episode was supposed to be _The Long,
JH> Twilight Struggle_, which was being hyped as one of the best
JH> episodes ever produced... but here they seem to be repeating
JH> _The Long Dark_.
The next *new* episode is going to be _The Long, Twilight Struggle_, but it
won't be airing in North America now until some time in October. PTEN has
decided to hold off on the final four episodes of the second season until then,
and then segue right into the third season (assuming that B5 is renewed).
Meantime, the Brits and Europeans will see the four episodes when they were
scheduled to air - in the June/July slot. :(
JK> JH>> why wouldn't Morden know too much about Kosh in return?
JH> [...]
JK> JH>> Unless they were born after the wars and the Shadows
JK> JH>> don't have any form of history, you'd think they'd figure
JK> JH>> it out... unless they really believe all the ancient
JK> JH>> ones left.
JK>> Well, as was established in "In the Shadow of Z'ha'dum",
JK>> the Shadows are an ancient race, and existed before some of
JK>> the other Ancient Ones came into existence (including the
JK>> Vorlons), but I don't think your bit about history is the
JK>> right one. Kosh has obviously
JH> I wonder how old the Shadows are that are with Morden, then...
No way to know...but we don't know all that much about them. We know that
they are at least 12,000 years old and that they were old when the other First
Ones, such as the Vorlons, were young.
JH> and why no one walks into them by accident.
Probably because they're phased. :)
JK>> got some sort of protection, whether psionic or something
JK>> that the Ancient Ones have learned, about how to cloak
JK>> themselves from the Shadows knowing who they are, although
JK>> "ItSoZ" also established that
JH> Hmmm, good point. I wonder if the encounter suit is also part
JH> of that protection, perhaps generating a scrambler field or
JH> just blocking mental emanations.
This would certainly seem to be the case, given that the Shadows in "Signs
and Portents" attempted to get through the suit to see what was inside. That's
how Kosh's encounter suit got damaged, although it's obvious now that the Shadow
allies of Morden didn't manage to penetrate Kosh's disguise. If they had, the
war with the Shadows would have started in deadly earnest by now.
JH> Say, how does this tie in with _The Gathering_?
No one knows, Jeff...at least no one other than JMS...and he ain't talking.
JH> I can't remember exactly what happened, but wasn't a telepath
JH> involved? And didn't the doctor who saw Kosh go to the Rim,
JH> where he could run into Shadows?
There were actually three people involved. The doctor, Benjamin Kyle, was
the first to see the Vorlon after saving him from the poison, and he was
transferred back to Earth and became part of President Santiago's personal
medical staff. In "Hunter, Prey," JMS later said that he'd not thought of
having Kyle being the doctor on the run, and that it would have been very
interesting. Lyta Alexander, the Psi Corps rep on the station in "The
Gathering," did the psi scan of Kosh to find out who had poisoned him. Lyta was
transferred off the station back to Earth as well, but she'll be back in
"Divided Loyalties," iirc. Laurel Takashima, the second-in-command, was
involved in the assassination attempt up to her neck, and she was the staff
member who was transferred out to the Rim (this was something that JMS said in
posts and the like); a lot of us believe that she'll be back as a Shadow agent
before the story is finished.
John
.....
"It's just that life is a habit that's hard to break..." - Albert (RM)
--- GoldED 2.41
* Origin: The Point Away From Home (1:163/198.5)
Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
Msg : 40 of 322
From : John Kahane 1:163/198.5 .īķ 05 .žķ 95 10:41
To : Jeff Hancock
Subj : Vorlon Immortality /2
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
(continued from the previous)
JK>> While the Shadows are always with Morden, as Delenn pointed
JK>> out, I think that it's possible Kosh may have surprised
JK>> Morden in their encounter in "Signs and Portents" to such
JK>> a degree that he was able
JH> Surprised? I don't remember Morden seeming that surprised, he
JH> was as confident as ever.
Watch the episode again, Jeff, if you can. :) Morden was surprised to see
the Vorlon the first time and hid from him in one of the off-shoot tunnels from
the docking bays when Kosh returned to the station. He avoided Kosh for most of
the episode, and the final confrontation with Kosh was the latter's doing, not
Morden's idea. JMS has said that it was the Shadows that are always with Morden
that attacked Kosh, not Morden personally, and that they were the ones who
damaged the encounter suit.
JK>> to rip the knowledge (or plunder it) from Morden's mind
JK>> before he came under attack by the Shadows that are always
JK>> with Morden (this latter point being a fact that Joe has
JK>> confirmed over on CompuServe).
JH> Which point exactly, that the Shadows were always with
JH> Morden, that the Shadows attacked Kosh, or that the knowledge
JH> was plundered before the attack? I'm not sure which part of
JH> your statement was confirmed.
Joe confirmed that the Shadows are always with Morden (which was confirmed
by Delenn in "In the Shadow of Z'ha'dum"), and that it was the Shadows that
attacked Kosh and damaged the encounter suit in "Signs and Portents." Morden's
knowledge being taken by Kosh is the only explanation of how Kosh could have
known what happened to the Icarus, and it's something that explains the sequence
that we saw in "ItSoZ"; the perspective we seem to have is that of Morden, if
you watch it more critically.
JK> JH>> But not everything was from Morden's POV...
JK>> The vision of the events of the Icarus landing on Z'ha'dum
JK>> were not all from Morden's view, but it's also likely that
JK>> a Shadow viewpoint was also part of that - something perhaps
JK>> that is part of
JH> Hmmm.... But if the Icarus woke up the Shadows on the surface
JH> of Za'ha'dum, then how could a Shadow ship have been in space
JH> to watch the Icarus before it landed?
Perhaps it wasn't a Shadow ship. Perhaps it was an automated system that
the Shadows, once awake, could have awareness of. Perhaps it was a Vorlon or
other First Ones orbital scanning/surveillance device. Who knows?
JK>> Shadows and their agents are telepathically linked (I refuse
JK>> to accept a hive-mind assumption for this), and that Kosh
JK>> took from
JH> Telepathically, perhaps... but whatever it is, I don't think
JH> they're always in contact. While Morden is in custody, you
JH> can see him doing something which would seem to suggest he's
JH> making contact with the Shadows.
True. And yet, go back to "Chrysalis"... that's the episode where he's
sitting comfortably and the Shadows are on either side of him talking to him.
He's not communing or meditating in that sequence to contact them. It strikes
that his actions in "ItSoZ" while in custody was a blatant attempt to get
Sheridan to see the Shadows.
JH> Curiously enough, it looks as if he's making a triangle with
JH> his fingers... What if he has one of those Minbari widgets, or
JH> perhaps the Minbari got them from the Vorlons or Shadows in some
JH> way?
We don't really know what the triangular symbol with his hands was, but
perhaps it's something from Shadow and other First Ones religions that has been
adopted by the Minbari (and perhaps other races). I doubt very much that he has
a triluminary...
JK> JH>> BTW, what do you think that was with Delenn saying she
JK> JH>> had known about it for the past THREE years? Perhaps
JK> JH>> they told her (or she read about) the Shadows upon her
JK> JH>> appointment to ambassador? Couldn't be the Grey Council,
JK> JH>> since that was long before.
JK>> Actually the time of Valen and the Grey Council is about
JK>> 1,000 years ago, which fits in with the business of the last
JK>> time that the
JH> Sorry, I was unclear. Obviously Minbari aren't told just
JH> because they joined the Grey Council, since then she would
JH> have known for longer than three years.
While this is possible, it also represents the fact that Delenn had only
