A group of women, unarmed, go out in the morning to find the very thing that
the large animals also seek. And where large herbavores are, large
predators are also. Danger!!! Hauling around a basket filled with enough
food to feed a family is also hard work. And with each day coming and
going, the search for food must cover a larger area. Therefore, the walk
with the full basket becomes harder.
These are my opinions, supported with as much evidence as possible. If you
still insist upon your view, then you are welcome to it. I've just stated
my side.
Darre LuAllen
___
* OFFLINE 1.56 * Ring, Ring! Pick up the Clue Phone!
--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: Cumberland BBS TN 615/526-3347 V34 (1:3637/1)
Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
Msg : 220 of 284
From : Darre LuAllen 1:3637/1 .îí 19 .åâ 96 11:34
To : The Raven
Subj : Excuse Me?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 02-12-96 The Raven wrote to Darre LuAllen...
Howdy, Jack. Nice to see you again.
TR> "This just in from our Moscow bureau..."
Shesh. No one's s'pose to know...
DL> I can think of three reasons, all bad: 1) Cheap (read slave)
DL> labor, 2) free land (like they couldn't find a better planet),
DL> and 3) food (remember the original "V" TV movies?)
TR> Somehow I don't think so. Interstellar travel would be such a major
TR> undertaking that any society that could accomplish it wouldn't *need*
TR> cheap labor. Robots would be much less expensive than building an
TR> interstellar ship, making the decades-long journey, and then fighting it
TR> out with the natives on the other end, then shipping either the natives
TR> (if you decide to ship them home) or the products you are using them as
TR> labor for (if you decide to set up production facilities there...) home.
Technologically speaking, you are correct. However, psychologically
speaking, they might have reservations to creating mechanical servants.
We humans have some strange notions that don't hold up to logic. For
instance, a man can get married, vote for a world leader, drive a car and
join the military to go off to kill and die by the age eighteen. And
after doing all of that, he can't have one stinking screwdriver to relax
with. Hmm... not logical, but to someone it makes sense. Also take
into consideration all the ethical questions genetic engineering is
causing.
TR> As for land, there's lots of it here in the solar system that you don't
TR> need to fight us over... the Moon comes to mind, as do the asteroids,
TR> Mars, Europa, Titan, and half a dozen other planets/moons/asteroids/and
TR> other big rocks.
If they just need land. Perhaps they like trees. Maybe they like the
Earth because they want to build summer homes. Again, psychology. They
are alien, after all. We have no way of knowing what they would be
interested in.
TR> And food? Considering the chance that we are biologically compatible
TR> with anything that shows up out of the sky are so remote...
Maybe, maybe not. The odds are incalculatable since we don't know anything
about our potential invaders.
At your Service,
Darre LuAllen
Rogue without a Clue
___
* OFFLINE 1.56 * How come wrong numbers are never busy?
--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: Cumberland BBS TN 615/526-3347 V34 (1:3637/1)
Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
Msg : 221 of 284
From : Darre LuAllen 1:3637/1 .îí 19 .åâ 96 11:51
To : Mark Jones
Subj : Bs!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 02-16-96 Mark Jones wrote to Darre LuAllen...
MJ> Cheap labor? I don't think so....
MJ> out--no matter how advanced your technology is. If you've got the
MJ> industrial base to build a fleet of interstellar warships, you
MJ> can probably build a robotic (or at least highly mechanized)
MJ> economy. You won't *need* aliens for brute labor.
DL> True. You would have to assume that their robotics technology has
DL> kept up with their drive tech. Otherwise,... Of course, it also
DL> depends upon the moral ethics of the alien race (being alien and
DL> all that). If they have a hang up with creating what might be
DL> considered mechanical beings, then grabbing slaves would be
DL> cheap. I'm not assuming AI's here, just a religious paradox sort
DL> of like what can be seen here with Genetic Engineering.
MJ> I find it hard to believe that aliens could have a taboo against
MJ> exploiting robots, but have no problem with enslaving aliens. On the
MJ> other hand, they're aliens, so maybe I'm being egocentric. I think
MJ> the aliens would have to view slave-holding as a virtue in and of
MJ> itself (sort of like S. M. Stirling's Draka culture) before going out
MJ> and enslaving aliens made any sort of sense.
For centuries, humans had problems enslaving their own tribes, clans,
nationalities, races, etc., but would sell the guy in the next village
for a few coins. The Church supported Knightly Orders sold children
as slaves to the Turks in the Middle Ages. Double standards may not
be solely a human trait.
MJ> Fighting over the limited habitable real estate in the galaxy seems
MJ> like a more plausible excuse for interstellar raids.
Here I agree completely with you. We really don't know what the
interstellar climate is like, so we might even be overlooking some other
factors for invasion. Suppose an alien race decides to "protect us" from
a more aggressive race. Wouldn't a sudden appearance of an alien force
wanting to occupy the Earth be an considered an invasion?
At your Service,
Darre LuAllen
Defender of the Realm
___
* OFFLINE 1.56 * I've got a cunning plan!
--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: Cumberland BBS TN 615/526-3347 V34 (1:3637/1)
Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
Msg : 222 of 284
From : Darre LuAllen 1:3637/1 .îí 19 .åâ 96 12:01
To : Kay Shapero
Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 02-17-96 Kay Shapero wrote to Darre LuAllen...
From message originally to Ecarey:
DL> arguments are wasted at this point. You know, SF/F stories are
DL> littered with people like this. (Swerve... Crash... Are we back on
DL> topic yet? 8) )
DL> Usually, they get eaten by the alien beastie or de-selected by
DL> the heroes/villians.
KS> Frankly I suspect this one is a ringer. I suppose he
KS> *could* be for real, but he sounds like someone playing a
KS> role to see how many people he can fool.
Perhaps. I do know that arrogance like his really gets my dander up.
Oh, well. I've stated by points as intelligently as possible. I hope
I've not misrepresented myself or the facts. I also hope the subject is
over. The debate is approaching serious "off-topic" territory.
KS> And speaking of irritating life forms, I'm most of the way
KS> through my reread of Patricia Wrede's Enchanted Forest
KS> books now that they're all collected in one place, and I
KS> find myself noticing how much the wizards remind me of
KS> certain politicians, and wondering what effect a carefully
KS> applied bucket of soapy water with lemon would have on
KS> same. :->
How about a recommendation on these? I'm looking for some good books
to read as soon as I'm finished with my Comparitive Lit class
(Pop Culture: SF/F). Right now, I'm suppose to be reading _Dune_, but
I'm holding off on it. I've read it before, so I'll just review it
before the test. As for the politicians, you can't help them with soap
only. Most of the problem is probably genetic. I really hope scientists
can isolate the Politician gene soon, so we can prevent this birth defect.
At your Service,
Darre LuAllen
Struggling to stay on topic
P.S. - If Nicolai decides to make the sexism thing off-topic, I'll go
quietly (and perhaps happily).
___
* OFFLINE 1.56 * Imagination is intelligence having fun.
--- Maximus/2 3.01
* Origin: Cumberland BBS TN 615/526-3347 V34 (1:3637/1)
Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
Msg : 223 of 284
From : Frank Glover 1:2613/477 .îí 19 .åâ 96 22:11
To : Barton Paul Levenson
Subj : Re: Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
BP> Loverbirds" (very daring when it first came out). Or anything by
BP> Heinlein after he became obsessed with sex.
Starting around `Stranger In A Strange Land,' eh?
Frank
--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
* Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)
Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
Msg : 224 of 284
From : Frank Glover 1:2613/477 .îí 19 .åâ 96 22:28
To : Barton Paul Levenson
Subj : Re: Alien threats?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
BP> They would have already done it.
BP>
BP> Look, the Milky Way galaxy is about 10 billion years old. Probably
BP> it's had intelligent occupants for the last 4-6 billion years. But
BP> studies (mostly published in Icarus in the '70s) show that even at
BP> sublight speeds, the galaxy would be completely colonized much faster
BP> than that. Therefore, either we're alone in the galaxy, or the
A possibility. This is known as the Fermi Paradox,and I admit I don't have a
good answer to it, either. If FTL is possible, it's even harder to explain.
David Brin has argued for the possibility of predatory (for whatever reason)
races, and I'm willing to entertain,but not swear to this one.
Also, in a galaxy and Universe of finite age, maybe life arises more slowly
than we think. Perhaps it will be full of sentients one day, but *somebody* had
to be the first...maybe we're among the first. (Mind you, I'm not comfortable
with this idea, even if true. It's a heavy responsibility to think *we* might
end up being the wise, old, mysterious race that others will one day look for/up
to.)
BP> than that. Therefore, either we're alone in the galaxy, or the
BP> aliens don't colonize. I rather think the latter is enforced by
BP> other races out of self-defense. The only way to bring on a negative
BP> first contact would be by trying to expand without permission.
But how do you enforce non-expansion by others by staying home yourself? How
would one get permission without meeting? (If `asking permission' is even in
your nature or social, political, religious or other belief system?)
Frank
--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
* Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)
Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
Msg : 225 of 284
From : Jaimie Park 1:3666/603 .åō 15 .åâ 96 18:30
To : All
Subj : x-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 93-0191
hello, this is jaimie park and i'm calling out to all those x-philes
