MJ> C. J. Cherryh. By all accounts she is popular with both the
MJ> critics and the public. Which probably means that she's a good
MJ> writer. And certainly what I know of her stories *sounds* good. But
MJ> I've tried many times to read some of her stuff and I just can't. It
MJ> feels like hacking my way through the jungle with a machete (it was,
MJ> in fact, her writing that led me to that description).
Yah, I feel the same way. But mostly my problem with Cherryh is that I
despise her as a person. I went to a writer's seminar with her (well... not
*with* her, but you get the idea) and her attitude was "unless you've
published as many novels as I have, your opinions of other writer's work is
worth crap". She *literally* told me, to my face, "Who the hell cares what
you think" during a supposed "open discussion" about a couple of stories.
MJ> Stephen R. Donaldson. I don't read his stuff. I *never* read his
MJ> stuff. So while it may seem that I'm breaking a cardinal rule--never
MJ> review a book you haven't read--plenty of friends have panned his
MJ> writing. And these are friends with tastes I a) know, and b) agree
MJ> with; I feel no need to burn myself on that oven just to be *sure* it
MJ> will burn me. [Sadly, these friends all say he writes very well--its
MJ> just that his "heroes" are pathetic creatures who invariably lack a
MJ> backbone.]
True enough. I think Donaldson suffers from Tolkein's disease (a love of
his own sense of the grandiose).
Besides the ones mentioned above (Cherryh and Donaldson), I do not read
(with reactions varying from simple avoidance to active shunning):
a) Piers Anthony: This is more complicated than it looks on the
surface. I like his historical and non-fiction, but hate his SF.
b) Steven Brust: Similar reasons to Cherryh. He did something rude and
uncalled for to me a while ago and I've been boycotting ever since.
c) L. Ron Hubbard: Sure, Scientology was a great practical joke, but
his writing needs work. To be basic, it sucks large wind.
d) Hickman and Weiss: Do I really need to explain?
I can probably think of a couple more later. But I won't.
Jack Butler
... "This isn't heaven! This sucks!" -- Bob McKenzie
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)
Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
Msg : 37 of 195
From : The Raven 1:363/309 .ōp 27 .åâ 96 06:04
To : Jeroen Jacobs
Subj : 'bugs' in ST: Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
JJ> -The klingons are getting de shield frequency of the Enterprise .Riker
JJ> is seeking desperate solutions. Why didn't he changed the
JJ> shield-frequency like he did in 'The best of both worlds' ??
JJ> If somebody has found other mistakes (not necessarely in
JJ> 'generations'), please let me know.
In "The Search For Spock", Kruge remarks that the Enterprise easily
outguns the Bird of Prey. Logically, the Enterprise-D does the same, even
with relatively modern (to a Next Generation starfleet member) Bird of Prey.
But instead of hitting the Bird of Prey as hard as possible and cracking
the Klingon's shields like an eggshell, the Enterprise barely responds to
the attack.
I wanna know *why*...
Jack Butler
... There is no greater loan than a sympathetic ear.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)
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Msg : 38 of 195
From : The Raven 1:363/309 .ōp 27 .åâ 96 06:07
To : Tommy Kellerman
Subj : Alien threats?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
MJ> 1. They're an alien form of life. They can't use our environment
MJ> (and therefore have no compunctions about destroying it), but consider
MJ> us a potential threat--we might get out and compete with them for
MJ> resources. So they eradicate us.
TK> Well, haven't you considered the opportunity to cooperate? They get
TK> something from us, and vice versa... They won't kick our asses before
TK> they have gotten everything that they still haven't got, now IF, they
TK> are the enemy.
TK> But I think I'm following Frank's footsteps rather than yours(no pun
TK> intended).
And what if the aliens take a "red ants" view toward all other life?
They attack everything which is not another red ant. Period. No discussion
or cooperation occurs because it never occurs to the aliens that discussion
and cooperation is necessary. Only attack.
MJ> 2. We are unwilling and/or unable to worship their god(s). Maybe we
MJ> find their religion silly. Maybe we *can't* perform the proper
MJ> rituals of worship because we don't have the physiology required. In
MJ> any case, our failure to worship is an unforgiveable sin--so they nuke
MJ> us out of existence.
TK> How do you know if they have a god? Maybe they don't have a religion
TK> at all. But if they do in the way you're saying, I guess we're toast.
We *are* speaking hypothetically, remember? We don't know they have a
God. But you are saying "there is no reason for any alien species to be
hostile to us without us doing something to them first". Mark and I are
merely adding a small reply of "nonsense".
You keep saying things like "If they were smart, they'd cooperate/guide/
train/work with us. But what you don't seem to want to consider is that
there may not be any good reason for them to attack us from *our* point of
view, but from theirs, every reason in the world exists.
Remember, to them, our point of view... our way of looking at things and
thinking them through... are irrelevant. They need not operate from the same
prejudices and lines of thought as we do.
Jack Butler
... We cannot direct the wind but we can adjust the sails.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)
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Msg : 39 of 195
From : The Raven 1:363/309 .ōp 27 .åâ 96 06:14
To : Nicolai Shapero
Subj : Alien threats?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
NS> Or they don't colonize worlds with intelligent life forms already
NS> present, or they CAN'T colonize a system where the local lifeforms
NS> haven't exploded outward into interstellar space already...(see David
NS> Brin's collection, RIVER OF TIME for a possible explanation of that
NS> variety...)
Oooooh... that story spooked the hell out of me. Good stuff. I still
think the best thing in that collection was Thor vs. Captain America.
Jack Butler
... "Chances are..." -- Abel the Minstrel
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)
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Msg : 40 of 195
From : The Raven 1:363/309 .ōp 27 .åâ 96 06:18
To : Todd Sullivan
Subj : Bs!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
TR> Who was it who said "A fair fight is a fight I win"?
TS> Sounds like any of the Heinlein books where Lazarus is featured. :^)
Since I sent the original message, I found the source. Teddy Roosevelt
said it.
Jack Butler
... Read enclosed instructions carefully before opening.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)
Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
Msg : 41 of 195
From : The Raven 1:363/309 .ōp 27 .åâ 96 06:23
To : Kim Wheat
Subj : Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
BPL> I think I know what you're trying to say, but I think you're mistaken
BPL> if you say sex can't be discussed seriously, under SF or otherwise.
BPL> Some interesting comments on sex and human sexuality have come out of
BPL> science fiction -- though usually books and not TV/movies. Cf
BPL> LeGuin's "The Left Hand of Darkness" or Philip Jose Farmer's "The
BPL> Loverbirds" (very daring when it first came out). Or anything by
BPL> Heinlein after he became obsessed with sex.
KW> To which you can add:
KW> Griffith's AMMONITE
KW> PJF's FLESH
KW> Varley's STEEL BEACH
Niven's "Ringworld Engineers"
Halderman's "The Forever War"
Vandenberg's "Alone in Darkness"
Jack Butler
... Highlander II: The Sickening
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)
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Msg : 42 of 195
From : The Raven 1:363/309 .ōp 27 .åâ 96 06:26
To : Anders Danebo
Subj : Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
BW> And pray tell me just what is serious Science
BW> Fiction????????.............. To you what may be serious Sci-Fi, may
BW> very well to others be fun and games. Also to you talking about sex may
BW> be boring and uninteresting, that's your perogative, but to others it
BW> may very well be something completely different. ANd as to your comment
BW> no one can get serious when sex is involved, WHy???]
AD> Sex always invites a kind of childishness that almost always gets out
AD> of hand and ends good discussions...Only my opinion but why speak
AD> about sex when you can do it instead...Right or Wrong??
Two points:
1. So far, there hasn't been any childishness, and the subject has
been bandied about off and on for a couple of years now.
2. And if you *can't* do it?
Besides, we are talking about sex (not necessarily the actual act, but
the practicies, customs, and societal views) as featured in science fiction.
There have been some very interesting ideas involving sex created in some
very fine science fiction.
If you have a problem with the subject matter, skip the messages dealing
with it.
Jack Butler
... Living with a saint is more gruelling than being one.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
* Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)
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Msg : 43 of 195
From : Milo Zambisie 1:138/258 .pä 28 .åâ 96 02:12
To : Chris Ogniben
Subj : Re: Gulliver's Travels
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Thu 15-Feb-1996 11:29a, Chris Ogniben said to Brion Lienhart:
CO> The movie series was stupid. Of course i didn't watch it, but, you
CO> all know that it's not real. And that it didn't acutally happen. It
CO> was all made up like a story book. I didn't bother wasting my time to
CO> watch it, not with great sci fi shows that are on.
So you're saying something that you haven't seen is stupid? How do you know?
"You all know that it's not real"? Do you think that people think that it was a
documentary? "And that it didn't actually happen."? By this am I to assume
that you think that the "great sci fi shows" you mentioned DID ACTUALLY HAPPEN?
Chris Ogniben is an idiot. Of course i've never met him, but, you all know
that he doesn't have a clue. And that he's prejudice. He babbles like a little
child. I shouldn't have wasted my time by posting this to him, not with all the
